Curse

System_Crush · Nov 04, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Stalker CC
“If you want it, you take it! When there are no consequences, then it probably wasn't worth wanting.”
Stalkers are renegades living outside of society and where shunned for their dishonorable ways.
However the troubles of recent times have made the people more accepting of any kind words, even those likely to be a lie.

Equipment

Energy:
40 base energy at 2 pips
Stalkers do not get a focus to improve this.

Armor:
Base: 70 AL
<Need help thinking of a cool bonus>

Stalker armor is quite uncivilized, They look like poachers wearing leather and chitin, dirty worn and torn, making for a very unsavory look (if you imagine eye patches and peg legs along with that, you’ll get the kind of look I mean)

Weapons:
Stalkers use a harpoon or bolt as tall as a dwarf as a 1 handed stabbing weapon for their default attacks.
But also carry a large ballista on their back, to fire the bolts and harpoons with over great range.

Example of a bolt:

Thunder Bolt
Damage: Lightening 15-20 (requires 9 Accuracy)
1-handed
Range: melee
Attack time: 1.33 seconds

Inscription:
None

Damage +20% (Customised for Wildshaft Hinatal)

Upgrade components:
Head | Blade/Point upgrades
Shaft | Grip/wrapping upgrades

Example of a green ballista:

The Demonwing
Damage: Fire +0-25 (requires 9 bombardment)
1/off-handed
Attack time: 3 seconds

Inscription:
“Too much information” +15% damage against hexed foes

Increases crippled duration on foes by 33%

Example of another ballista:

Ebon Ballista
Damage: Piercing +12-13 (requires 9 bombardment)
1/off-handed
Attack time: 3 seconds

Inscription:
None

Damage +20% (Customised for Wildshaft Hinatal)

Upgrade components:
Winch | Blade/Point upgrades
Clasp/Trigger | Grip/wrapping upgrades

The ballista is an offhand ‘weapon’ and is carried on the back of the stalker not having any effect, unless you are in a salvo stance, using the ballista.
When you use the ballista it adds damage and range to your bolt/harpoon attacks, when fired over range the damage of the bolt relies on bombardment not on accuracy.
The range of the ballista’s attacks, as well as the flight time is determined by the salvo stance you are in.

The damage a ballista adds can be of a different type than the bolt’s damage; in fact a ballista is an upgradeable weapon completely separate from the bolt, allowing you to for example stack the effects of 2 poisonous weapon mods, or use a zealous and vampiric mod at the same time.
You also get 20% more damage over the base damage of the bolt and over the added damage of the ballista, by dual customising them.
The +20% from the ballista does not improve the damage of the bolt, or visa versa; but when firing the ballista both bonuses count on their individual parts of the total damage.
This is balanced by attacks with the ballista being incredibly slow.
(and any attack over a range as large as eye shot having a long flight time making them very dodge able)

Ballistae add up to a max of 25 damage to attacks, this can be divided any which way over the minimum and maximum damage modifier.

Attacks in melee with the bolt won’t get any benefits from the stats of the ballista.

Ballistae are often quite decorated, resembling angels, demons or birds with the stock as the body and the bow decorated to resemble wings.
Mandigor carapaces are also a popular decoration theme for ballistae.

Insignias:
Poacher’s | +15AL Vs. elemental (while attacking)
Reaver’s | Increase all damage dealt by 3, and increase all damage taken by 3 (non stacking)
Trophy Hunter’s | +3AL for each dead foe in eyeshot.

Ambush/Accuracy (primary)
For each rank in ambush attacks by you gain a 4% chance to be unblockable.
Also when you hit with an attack skill, for each rank in ambush you gain 1% of the total damage dealt as energy

Primitive Ambush stance E5 A- R45
If there are foes adjacent to you this skill fails, if you move Savage Ambush ends.
You are camouflaged and your next melee attack deals 12…33(40) additional piercing damage, if that foe is casting a spell that damage is doubled.

Chameleons Crouch elite salvo stance E5 A1 R30
You fire your ballista from a lying position; your bolts have a low arch and can strike foes from earshot up to nearby. While camouflaged your attacks also have an additional 4…22(28)% chance to be a critical hit. This stance ends when you move, when it ends you repack for it’s activation time.

Horri Bolt bolt attack E5 A(next attack) R14
When this attack hits a blind foe it deals an additional 5...14(17) damage, if it hits a crippled foe it deals an additional 5...14(17) damage.

Poachers Expertise ambush E15 A3 R20
For 60 seconds, while in the area of this ambush, whenever you hit with an unblockable attackskill you also cripple the target for 1...3(4) seconds, and you lose 2 energy or this ambush ends.

Bitter Bolt bolt attack E10 A(next attack) R10
If this attack hits it deal no damage but all allies adjacent target foe steal 4…25(32) health from that foe.
(max 3 allies)

Chameleon's Concentration ambush E15 A3 R22
For 60 seconds, while in the area of this ambush, whenever you hit with an unblockable attackskill, you are camouflaged for 1...2(3) seconds and you lose 6 energy or this ambush ends.

Utter Concentration elite bolt attack E10 A6 R2
If this attack hits it deals +5...26(33) damage and always results in a critical hit. This skill activates 0...51(68)% faster but is easily interruptible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarhead

A marine dies for 8000 horribly placed rounds, a sniper dies for 1 perfect shot

Aimed Shot elite bombardment E5 A1 R0
Attack target foe's location with a bolt, if this bombardment does not result in a critical hit, it misses.
When this attack strikes a foe, it has an additional 20...50(60)% chance to result in a critical hit.

Bombardment
Each level in bombardment increases the damage you can deal with bolts, in melee and at range, it also increases the damage balistae add to ranged attacks with a bolt and your chances to inflict a critical hit with a bolt.

Harpooner’s Poise salvo stance E5 A½ R20
For 20 seconds you fire the ballista from under your arm, your bolts have no arch and can strike foes in the area up to adjacent, but you move 60…36(28)% slower. When this stance ends you repack for it’s activation time.

Tremor bombardment E15 A4 R10
Attack target foes location with a bolt, this bolt deals no damage and if it is blocked by a foe at that location, that foe is knocked down. Otherwise all foes adjacent to that location are knocked down, any foe knocked down by tremor takes 5...26(33) earth damage.

Harpey’s Harpoon elite preparation E5 A3 R15
For 2...11(14) seconds the activation time of your bombardments is reduced by 30…57(66)%.

Scatter Bolt bombardment E15 A3 R15
You attack target foes location with a bolt, this bolt always misses, but all foes near that location take 2...20(26) slashing damage and start bleeding for 4 seconds.

1 Shot 1 Kill elite ambush E25 A3 R30
For 60 seconds, while in the area of this ambush, whenever you hit with an unblockable attackskill it deals +4...16(20) damage, and you lose 5 energy or this ambush ends.

Terri Bolt bombardment E10 A3 R12
You attack target foes location with a bolt, if this bolt strikes a foe at that location all other adjacent foes take 5...20(25)% of the damage dealt.

None
Plz help me think of a good function to replace derrivation

Contraband

Guile of the Snake Oil Salesman elite stance E10 A- R35
Remove up to 1...4(5) effects from yourself that reduce your movement speed, for each effect removed you gain 5 seconds of 25% faster movement and are immune to knockdown.

Smugglers Sense ambush E15 A3 R40
For 60 seconds, while in the area of this ambush, whenever you hit with a unblockable attackskill, any struck foes are knocked down, and you lose 15...9(7) energy or this skill ends.

Wonder Tonic elite skill E10 A½ R15
You are cured of all conditions, and for 4...7(8) seconds you are immune to any condition that was removed. When Wonder Tonic ends you suffer from disease, poison, weakness and dazed for 4...7(8) seconds.

Foolproof Plan elite stance E5 A- R20
All your attack skills are disabled for 12...6(4) seconds, for each skill disabled this way you run 50% faster for 2 seconds.

No attribute

Bombardeer’s Poise salvo stance E5 A1½ R20
You fire your ballista from the ground, supporting it with a bolt; your bolts have a high arch and can strike foes from eyeshot up to in the area. Your bolts gain double the effect of elevation on their range. This stance ends when you move, when it ends you repack for it’s activation time.

New stuff

State: Camouflaged
Camouflaging is using magic to become harder to spot.
It does not make you invisible, only partially transparent and removes any name or markers you would have above your head, because a player has show all names turned on. When a player targets you, your name and things, display normally.

So camouflage is by no means a way to be completely safe, though it does help a lot when a player careless enough to overlook you, or if they are too busy to notice your outline.
Dark spots or places with vegetation obstructing people’s sight will of course help you in avoiding detection by players.
An army of minions or ranger pets will cause more targets to go trough with Tab, making it harder for players to find you by just hitting Tab.

Camouflage also helps against mobs, mobs will not start to attack camouflaged creatures unless they are within in their earshot.
If that mob is already attacking, they know foes are near and will attack normally.
Also when choosing between multiple targets to aggro a mob will see a camouflaged player as having 20 more armor (making them less likely to target that player for being the softest target in range)

Camouflage often requires you to stay still, so it isn’t some uber running skill that makes sure mobs can’t aggro you.
Once a player has targeted you, they’ve seen you; this doesn’t end your concealment, but concealment doesn’t offer any defensive benefit by it’s self, so not moving because you don’t want to end your concealment skill is more like a penalty than a benefit when you get spotted and attacked.

State: Repacking
Repacking is the state you are in while activating a salvo stance and after a salvo stance has ended.
Repacking is similar to activating a skill, except it can’t be interrupted.
While repacking skill activations, or attack actions, are cued to wait until you are done repacking, while repacking you are still able to move freely.
If a salvo stance ends on account of another stance replacing it, the first X seconds of that stance are used for repacking, any passive effect of the stance such as block chance or run buff is active while repacking.

Range: eyeshot
Still looking for a better name.
A large new range larger than spirit range, it is about 1.7 * the aggro circle. It represents the maximum range over which ‘human’ eyes can see well enough to actually hit something.

Like Kornan spotters, some stalker mobs will also start to attack players outside their aggro circle. Concealment is a way to avoid this.

Range only increases the amount of walking foes have to do inonder to get to you, there is no max range beyond which foes will not aggro you when you attack them.
Hell I've had mobs attack me from half the map away because they where still suffering from a hex I put on them, but was as the rezz shrine now.

Also if mob's have no ranged abilities, and can;t path their way too you, they will run in the oposite direction trying to get you of your range.

Skill type: Salvo stance
A salvo stance is a special type of stance, that has an activation (and a deactivation) time. This time is used to setup and repack the ballista when the stance begins and ends.
The salvo stance puts the character in a firing position that makes the large ballista handle able; there are 3 positions.

From under your arm
From a support
From a lying position

Each position can be used by any number of salvo stances that each have their own ranges or bonuses.

Salvo stances determine how you fire your ballista; this determines that arch of the bolt, and a range in which you may attack foes.
This introduces a minimum range for a ranged weapon, when firing a ballista and you try to attack a foe that is not in your range, you get an out of range message instead of starting to move towards that foe; this is firstly because most salvo stances would end if you’d move and also because the foe might be too close instead of too far.

Skill type: bombardment
A bombardment is an attack skill that requires a ballista.
Using a bombardment doesn't require you to be in a salvo stance, instead you can fire the ballista while it is on your back;
If you do, fire the ballista on your back it has melee range, with the additional penalty of having to wait until the bolt comes down after being fired straight up.
It will be more effective if you use a bombardment while in a salvo stance, this will add range and

If the bombardment would mis, it still hits target location, but doesn't strike any foe.

Skill type: bolt attack
A bolt attack is an attack that can be made with both a melee and a ranged bolt attack. Some of these will have different effects weather they are used in melee or at range.

Skill type: Ambush
An ambush is a location based skill, its kind of like an invisible ward spell, but it only affects you.
While in the area of where you activated the ambush, you gain the benefit from it, but pay for it with your energy.
You can't have more than 1 ambush active at a time.
You can also just leave the area of the ambush, wait for your energy to regenerate, then get back in the ambush again.

nebojats · Nov 04, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Yo SC,

I was just passing through and I saw you'd posted a new CC.

The coolest part about the Stalker is the weapon: the bolt and ballista are a cool combination. In its ranged form, it's very original because it has an insanely long range, and with the weapon spells is more like an area-of-effect bombarding weapon. In its melee form, meh... nothing new.

Ambush is pretty cool because it introduces camouflage... although I'm iffy on the way that condition works. Bombardment is unique only in that it pertains to the new weapon (i.e. if these skills were for bow or spear, they wouldn't justify a new attribute). Accuracy is justified because of the aoe-type skills which target the foe's location rather than the foe itself. Really, I feel like these two attributes (Bombardment and Accuracy) should just meshed into one. I'm not really sure about derivation... it doesn't tie into the character, and I don't get how it's fundamentally different from what we get by spirits.

So I think the originalities are: bolt (in long range mode), camouflage, and location-targeted attacks. At best, that's two attributes worth of originality. One which focuses on camouflage/sniping and another which focuses on the true bombardment/artillery aspect of the weapon.

To improve this CC, I think the melee version of the weapon needs to be made more original... something needs to distinguish it from the milieu of melee weapons we already have at our disposal. That could justify a third attribute on top of the previously mentioned camouflage/sniping and bombardment/artillery-oriented attributes. As for a fourth attribute, I'd say ditch the seedlings and find something else. They just seem unrelated to a weapon-based class and not very original.

Hope this helps!

System_Crush · Nov 05, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

I was just passing through and I saw you'd posted a new CC.

Glad to see some of you, you don't visit us on this side of the forums nearly as much as you used too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

The coolest part about the Stalker is the weapon: the bolt and ballista are a cool combination. In its ranged form, it's very original because it has an insanely long range, and with the weapon spells is more like an area-of-effect bombarding weapon. In its melee form, meh... nothing new.

Well I tried to do something in melee with that bolts are ammo, so you have an infinite amount of them available.
Hence the 1 shot preparations, that leave the prepared bolt stuck in your foe.
But I agree it might need some better way to distinct itself, any1 have any ideas on other ways to toy with an infinite amount of pointy sticks?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

Ambush is pretty cool because it introduces camouflage... although I'm iffy on the way that condition works.

It's a slight detaunt, as while firing a weapon with minimum range, you wouldn't want your foes knowing where to stand to not get hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

Bombardment is unique only in that it pertains to the new weapon (i.e. if these skills were for bow or spear, they wouldn't justify a new attribute). Accuracy is justified because of the aoe-type skills which target the foe's location rather than the foe itself. Really, I feel like these two attributes (Bombardment and Accuracy) should just meshed into one.

Hmm.. that might make it easier in mechanics too, I didn't consider it because it puts a melee and a ranged weapon under the same attribute.
But now reviewing, that might actually be a good thing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

I'm not really sure about derivation... it doesn't tie into the character, and I don't get how it's fundamentally different from what we get by spirits.

Like the other Mandigor related skills(mandigors are root monsters) it is supposed to tie the stalker into nature, but a more dangerous, ruthless and darker side of nature, than that of the ranger.
The seedlings might be too much like [skill=text]Destruction[/skill] but their purpose is to be preplaced and shot at with ballista attacks to detonate them, as a way of bombardment but tuned down for balance, in that you have to get/have been close to the bombing spot first.
It's also a great way to spike, because you can place several at the same spot(1 seedling can be the target for others) then detonate all of them with 2 AoE skills.
(you can even use shade root to hide them from foes)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

So I think the originalities are: bolt (in long range mode), camouflage, and location-targeted attacks. At best, that's two attributes worth of originality. One which focuses on camouflage/sniping and another which focuses on the true bombardment/artillery aspect of the weapon.

Hope this helps!

You've been a great help, objective vieuw and all. ty Nebo

[EDIT]
While revising some, I though of something: Would it be good if bolts always remained stuck in your foe, and because they are not weightless they weigh down your foe. Each bolt stays in something like 5 seconds after it hit.
Each hit slowing movement by 2%, your and attribute X deciding the maximum amount of bolts that stack this way.
It would certainly help hit moving foes while having the high arch and long flight time.

Any body think that would be good? or has a better Idea.
If so what attribute do I add it too, ambush and bombardment are kind of packed with things they do.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Nov 06, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

The Slowening thing seems a little Overpowering^^.
Very Unique and Intrestng, BTW^^!
But I think it's better if some of you'r Ideas would be mixed with the Ranger^^.
Do you have any example photos^^?, Just curious how do they look like?

System_Crush · Nov 08, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

I'm at a "View me again" stage of revisions.
I've changed skills and attributes, tried to keep it all balanced.

I'd love some input right now.
Still need a special effect for the weapon and a interesting bonus for the armor.

Any other comments or thoughts are of course more than welcome.

[EDIT]
Attached a picture, rights belong to Frank (garris) Koster, I only resized it, because even though his chibi is nice, it's not great for CC's.
The pic is perhaps Cantan armor for a Stalker, though it doesn't really look dirty and ruffled enough, from lying in ambush in the bushes a lot.

nebojats · Nov 09, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Ok, I just looked at the class again, trying to forget what I had said before and what changes you made. Giving it a fresh look, as it were...

One big thing I was thinking is that this class's identity is way too much like the ranger. The function is not, but the identity is. A souped up bow and arrow and nature class. It needs to be different, although how, I'm not sure. It's possible that you could go with a sort of cyber-punk or technological class... although I hate such an idea in GW. Some sort of ballista/primitive gun with big harpoons. Instead of mandrigors, bomblets. But honestly, I really don't want to see a cyber-punk class. That's just an example of how the identity could be modified.

Another thing I noticed is that ballista and bolt don't have respective attributes. Accuracy has melee and ranged skills. Bombardment increases damage of both weapon components. Personally, I think they should be separated. Ranged skills (with long shots and splash damage attacks) should be primary, allowing other professions to learn to fight with just the bolt, but not how to shoot it.

The bolt still needs to be a unique melee weapon somehow. I'm not sure how... perhaps it could be used as a sort of quarterstaff in close range (it seems like it might be long enough). It could somehow take advantage of its ability to both stab and block. Maybe different fighting styles... I don't know, I'm rambling.

The derivations are not so hot, in my opinion. I do like that they sort of act like mines. You summon them and when you shoot them down or they're destroyed, they explode and have some effect on the battlefield. Problem is, you need to have their death effects be original. There are already spirits that cause havoc upon their death. I think you should take the general idea of summoning things and then shooting them so they have an effect, but not go with mandrigors... like I said before, the identity is too Ranger-like.

With contraband not so sure what the unifying concept is, although it does suggest a nice alternative identity: a shady mercenary/criminal class.

That's all I can think of for now. I'll try and mull over it some more later...

P.S. Another way to make this CC's ranged game unique is to let the ballista fire as you move (no stopping to shoot)

Bobby2 · Nov 10, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

I like the weapon

But what's been said about him being too much like the Ranger is true. Contraband has a 'piratey' feel to it though. Maybe change the Derivation to something more like the Tactics line (expertise in war and all that?) obviously not using Shouts of course...

[M]agna_[C]arta · Nov 12, 2007, 10:08 AM // 10:08

I am starting to like this CC^^.
Wouldn' mind if I find a pic which goes with this CC^^.

Copyright of Gravity Co.

Phoenix Tears · Nov 12, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

@Magna : XD you and your pictures of RO lol ..., this time you show Gunslingers ...

Hmm, sure, when u hear "Stalker", lots of people think at RO ^^... as i too, for me a Stalker is more a Rogue type Profession.
Would GW2 have a Evolution-System, similar to RO, then i would put the Stalker also as an Evolution of a Rogue, whould the be in GW2 the Thief as Core-Profession to evolve into a Rogue > Stalker
======

But to the CC ..imo, the CC looks to me, like a try to merge Guild Wars with Counter Strike XD, Don't know why, but thats only my feeling.
Also the Weapon is a bit weird ..
Harpoones are Spear-Weapons of Fishermen oO

Hmm, when I think of the steroetype Stalker, attributes would look more like this:

(P) Espionage: (Attribute, that the Stalker uses for camouflage, weakening enemies through analizing weakeness with spying techniques, self buffs that are used, while being in stealth, also This Attribute would increase every 3 points the energy gain by +1, that the Stalker receives every 3 seconds, while being in stealth

Crossbow Mastery: (not much to say about - Damage of Crossbow 17-33, range of cross bows is like Short Bow-Recurve Bow. ASPD like the slowest bow of the ranger. Crossbow has 15% Armor Penetration Bonus automatically

Sword Arts: A Sword Attribute, which lets the Stalker fight with Dual Swords,
not much to say about, other that this att contains naturally attack skills for Dual Sword Style and Stances. Dual Swords are other Swords, than Swords of the Warrior. Dual Swords get handled like 2H Weapons, like Daggers.
Damage of Dual Swords > 10-27 , ASPD like Axe, stalker has + 15% chance for parrying physical attacks

Guerilla Battle
Includes trap skills, Stealth Attacks and Selfheal Survival Skills, that trigger, when you are/attack in stealth.

so would look more mine Stalker, more like a combination of a Rogue, Spy and Ranger *gg*

System_Crush · Nov 12, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Glad you like it, though those don't look like poachers, they look like cold war spies.
While guns fit the role of the class, it would require free floating barrel rifles, that is way to advanced technology for me to even consider suggesting for GW.
(and the design of that girls gun is impossible, it either only works in 1 barrel or doest shoot straight)

If I change it to not be attuned to nature, and go for a more poacher/smuggler(/pirate) identity, what would be a function for an attribute to replace derivation with.

@ Phoenix
The point of this CC is artillery, extreme long range and high damage. The damage either spread over multiple targets or high sniping damage to a single target.
I prefer for the name to fit the role more than the role to fit the name, so I'd rather have your views on an artillery class.

As for the name I had no idea what to call it, I considered, hunter, slayer, poacher; but ended up with Stalker because it has a nice ring to it, and connected to the chameleon and Mandigor skills.

A harpoon is a spear you can't pull out, used to fish because fish are slippery and often get washed off a normal spear yes.
But is is also a fire able spear, 'cavemen' where know to use small bows to fire small harpoons at quick fish, wale hunters use cannons to fire harpoons.
Technically harpoons would be bad as a melee weapon, because you can't pull them out to attack again.
But GW classes have a magical infinite supply of ammo, so the stalker leaves the weapon inside the foe and grabs a new one, mainly for the sake that it looks cool.

And why do you associate this with counterstrike O.o, most FPS games block the artillery approach because it is either over powered or weak.
I'm rather annoyed that 2142(Muhahaha BF>CS(I'm sooo asking for a flame)

) has made the AA gun unusable as a mortar. Using grenades along with ammo resupply, works but it's not as realistic.
I also got ETQW recently; besides bing a [censored] over ATI cards, it covers artillery in 3 different ways(Constructor grenade launcher&Oppressor+Battle-Technician&Infiltrator Drones)!
I love it, 12 kills and 0% accuracy lolz. I got least accurate award 6 times in a row

@everyone
I still need something original you can do with an infinite amount of pointy sticks, plz help!

[M]agna_[C]arta · Nov 13, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

I know but that was the only nice one I have seen.
I have seen nicer and better but it as big flaws.

System_Crush · Nov 13, 2007, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

I know but that was the only nice one I have seen.
I have seen nicer and better but it as big flaws.

Ehhhh... Wut?

Phoenix Tears · Nov 13, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

First, such an extreme long ranged class, thats should also deals huge aoe damage is absolute overpowered...
with such a class you could attack everything in GW from extreme wide distance, kill groups easily, without reveaving any aggro, because you would stand far away from their aggro area...

thats like firing in the first proph mission with this siege weapon on the group of charr. imagine only, the group would survive the first shot, they wouldnt attack you, because they get no aggro (because u wouldn't know in such a moment, from which direction you got shoted)

Ballistas, are nothing else, like Arbalest, which are Crossbows and Crossbows have a shorter range, than average Bows, but a stronger attack power, which is armor penetrating, because the bolts, which get shot by a crossbow pierce simple through armor. Crossbows are thought for Melee to Mid Ranged Fights, thats why they should have ingame the range of short to recurve bows (spears).

An artillery class would be 100% overpowered.
Think only of a team of 8 of them ...you would be able to nuke everything total far away from you, without getting any aggro...nah sry, when this was your intetion of the Concept for this profession, then just no.

System_Crush · Nov 13, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

First, such an extreme long ranged class, thats should also deals huge aoe damage is absolute overpowered...
with such a class you could attack everything in GW from extreme wide distance, kill groups easily, without reveaving any aggro, because you would stand far away from their aggro area...

thats like firing in the first proph mission with this siege weapon on the group of charr. imagine only, the group would survive the first shot, they wouldnt attack you, because they get no aggro (because u wouldn't know in such a moment, from which direction you got shoted)

Ballistas, are nothing else, like Arbalest, which are Crossbows and Crossbows have a shorter range, than average Bows, but a stronger attack power, which is armor penetrating, because the bolts, which get shot by a crossbow pierce simple through armor. Crossbows are thought for Melee to Mid Ranged Fights, thats why they should have ingame the range of short to recurve bows (spears).

An artillery class would be 100% overpowered.
Think only of a team of 8 of them ...you would be able to nuke everything total far away from you, without getting any aggro...nah sry, when this was your intetion of the Concept for this profession, then just no.

Have you tried to attack melee's as a ranger from some place they can't get too? Mobs will run away, trying to get out of your range.

Have you ever tried attacking mobs with a bow, from an elevation, your range in increased up to max 1.4 of your aggro circle, somehow mobs you attack, still manage to find you even though you are not in their aggro circle.

Mob's will aggro whenever you finish using a skill or attack on them, even if it fails or misses, as long as you weren't interrupted or canceled.

Ballistae and bolts are large, and not silent. I see little reason the charr would not notice you after you fire your fist shot at them.

I'll sum up for you how it would go, on the basics(dependent on your skill set there will be variations)

When attacking with a salvo stance, you are not allowed to move or the stance ends.
This means when you (attempt) to hit a foe, they notice you, they and their entire patrol come charging in.
They are moving now, you can't hit them anymore with your crappy slow & high arch weapon.
Even with +33% attack speed you get a maximum of 6 (missing) shots before the foes get to you because your weapon is so slow.
When the foes get to you, you can no longer attack them because your weapon has a minimum range.
Now you will have to move, to end the salvo stance, because it stops you from doing anything.
You end your salvo stance, you are rendered useless for a little while longer, while repacking your ballista.
When you finish repacking your ballista, you have to chose to take on the foe in melee, at high risk because you don't have 75% block chance like all other classes with only 70 armor.
Or run away to attack from range again, that is: if you can get away from the foes, and if your meager 2 energy regen can conjure up enough energy for heals and still have left for a salvo stance when there is enough distance between you and the ranged part of the mob.

A party of 8 Stalkers could all use attack skills against the same foe, making for a very effective spike.
But so can ele's, but because they don't have the extreme range, their AoE skills are twice as fast as and deal more damage.
And so can assassins, but be cause they don't have any range at all, their attacks can't be dodged by taking 2 steps.

Also if you look more closely at the bombardments you'll notice that the highest AoE damage I put in is a conditional 45 to adjacent, because otherwise it would be too easy to gain energy through the primary.

I'll admit that that may not have been too obvious looking at the post, though I did definitely hint enough to ensure no one mistakes the class for half as overpowered as you described them.

Phoenix Tears · Nov 13, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

maybe i just misunderstood your words (in the end I can also translate stuff for me wrong XD. ..can happen ...im not perfect)

uhm, but that were your words:

Quote:

@ Phoenix
The point of this CC is artillery, extreme long range and high damage. The damage either spread over multiple targets or high sniping damage to a single target.
I prefer for the name to fit the role more than the role to fit the name, so I'd rather have your views on an artillery class.

Extreme long range and high damage means to me, that you seek a new Proession, that should have the best abilities from 2 different existing classes in one,. The Ranger and the Elementalist.
A Ranger with a Long/Flat Bow is also very wide ranged and you wish something, that should have more range then still this ?
Sry no, a class, that would have a better range, then Rangers would be overpowered. also a class that would deal more AoE damage over such far distances, then an Elementalist ...

When you want have Artillery, just play as a Ranger/Ritualist with Splinter Weapon, use a Long/Flat Bow and "bombard" enemy groups from far away with Splinter Barrage ...the same effect as like an Artillery and the Concept works the same.

Imagine only, what would be, when 8 of them, or say just only 7 and number 8 is 1 obsi tank .... you could play anything without any problem, HM would become a real joke and you know why ?
Because this Group would be able to spike anything to death and would never die, only maybe the Obsi Tank, but that one is quick revived, by one of the 7 Stalker/Monks/Ritualists ...ect whatever for other combinations through Rezz Signet.

The tactics is somewhat of easy thought out, but super effective, that playing GW would be not fun anymore, just only mass slaughter with no challenge ...

Example:

1 Obsi Tank
7 Bombardement Stalker

with following Skills:

- Starfall
- Tremor
- Splinter Weapon (imagine only the Effect of Splinter Bombardements...)
-
-
- These 4 Skills can be put up with oterh Skills, that improve attack Damage, or some Skills, hwich enable the Stalker better Melee Fight through Spells
Naturally some self Heal Skills also put in for the Case of all Cases, but not to forget the mosat important skills, that lets the Stalker get into stelath and one, that improves movement speed
-
- Rezz Skill

Simple Tactics:

The Obsi Tank runs at frotn, but don't lures any monsters and Aggro .. the 7 Artillery Stalkers (god, this name for this class fits absolutely not XD) will meanwhile prepare for their massivive group pwnage Assault with Skills that improve their overall attack power for at least their next 1 attack skill used, or their use such weapon spells like splinter weapon to increase the gorup damage bombardements will do massively ..., like as you would do it, short before using Barrage. (think only, how heavy 7(8) Splinter Barrage rits would be spiking one group target simultanously)

Are all artilleries prepared for their bombardements with increased attack powers for their next skills, they wil all shoot with their aoe bombardements at SAME time 1 group ...

when something, when really something should have survived the first assault !!, then will activate the 2nd easy part of this simple tactic ..
All Stalkers will immediately "disappear" and go into stealth mode, so that they wont get aggro ... the obsi tank will run now to the survivors of the enemies and will take over the aggo, while the 7 Stalkers run quickly while in stealth to a next position, where they are again far enough away, hwen needed with help of the movement speed buff before to run quicker to the next point.
Now the game starts again... artillery prepares quick for their next assault, hwile the obsi tank keeps monsters busy, so that none will charge at the artillery ...all prepared ...BOOM and after second assault, surely everything, even high end bosses will be nukres through massive aoe Splinter Bombardements.

When not all take the same bombardement skils, it goes even quicker, some take condition bombardements, like that one, thta should cause bleeding/burning ...any group qwill go down very quick with such spikes.

No sry, but I really think, such a class would destroy the PvE, when used with such groups ... either the extreme long range, that should be better than from Rangers (where is the sense in playing as Ranger in kind of ranged fighting, when you be an uber Artillery with AoE Bombardements) would destroy it, or far more the fact, that this Class should be able to use Camouflage and this effect yould be used to avoid receiving Aggro...
(simple, what you can't see, can't get aggro)

That together with the Obsi Tank-Tacic would make such a group in pvp just unbeatable and that would make PvE boring ... also not to mention ,what new farming possibilities this proffesion would surely enable by such a farming group build ...

PS: not to mention the heavy single target spike possibilities of Starfall..

7(8) * 110+ Damage to 1 foe = 770(880) Damage, when spiked by all at same time
In NM, thats at least 100% instant kill, at HM with skills like Splinter Weapon ect. to buff damage output surely too...

with such spike damage, the tactic could also be like Assault & (hide) Run away only, until all enemies got deathnuked oO by this way

nebojats · Nov 14, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Phoenix Tears makes some good points. Now to transform his utter rejection into a helpful critique:

I agree with two of PT's major complaints: the Stalker is overpowered because it a) deals too much damage (either direct or indirect through conditions); and b) easily escapes aggro by going invisible.

The exceedingly simple improvements that logically follow are: a) make the Stalker deal less damage; and b) put some sort of handicap on the camouflage abilities.

Regarding the first improvement, I think that while sniper-type skills should deal decent damage to a single target, bombardment skills should focus on dealing a mediocre amount of damage to multiple targets at once (basically just cut the numbers down some). The number and intensity of conditions should also be limited, to prevent the condition spamming. Really, it seems like these conditions should revolve around mechanical weapon consequences (rather than magical or chemical). So that would mean: bleeding, cracked armor, crippled, knockdown, deep wound, and perhaps others. By scaling down bombardment damage and limiting the duration and variety of conditions, the Stalker will no longer deal too much damage.

Regarding the second issue, as it is now, Stalkers may simply bombard and then disappear. To fix this fault, simply put some handicaps and limits on the Stalker's invisibility. Some ideas floating around in my head are: 1) the Stalker may not camouflage while in a salvo stance; 2) the Stalker may not camouflage while attacking nor afterwards for x amount of time; 3) while camouflaged the Stalker may only move in a very limited fashion.

So hopefully that helps. While PT points out some faults, they can easily be fixed with a little scaling. A suggestion of my own is that the ballista (and her I have to agree with PT... Arbelast is a more fitting term) should only be able to have insanely long range while the Stalker is in a stance.

System_Crush · Nov 14, 2007, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

also a class that would deal more AoE damage over such far distances, then an Elementalist ...

Well that is at least 1: I never said they deal more AoE damage then elementalists.
They deal AoE damage, but more around 80-120% of that of a dervish; nothing at all like the 350 damage you take when waiting out the entire duration of a [skill=text]Fire Storm[/skill].

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

Extreme long range and high damage means to me, that you seek a new Profession, that should have the best abilities from 2 different existing classes in one. The Ranger and the Elementalist.

In part they do combine those, they get great range and good single target damage. Similar amounts an air ele deals single target but taking much longer to cast.
They also get spread damage, but the AoE damage is only half that of their normal attacks.

The blend however goes along the line of of twice the damage at half the speed. But I did bear in mind to be a little more unique, than that, as well as just combining the 2 classes.

Sadly, you might be right about the rest of your critiques...

Also, long as the tank goes in first, mobs will lock aggro on him; allowing stalkers to attack without having to move, which will be even more overpowered.
This all of course only works in areas where you have a large enough clear line of sight to make good use of the eyeshot range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

Now to transform his utter rejection into a helpful critique:

Thanx for that nebo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

a) deals too much damage (either direct or indirect through conditions)

I'll nerf numbers right away, and dump some of the degen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebojats

b) easily escapes aggro by going invisible.

They don't turn invisible, camouflage makes you transparent, but your outline can still be seen. Becoming camouflaged does not break aggro, the mob knows where he's last seen you, and can still seen you because he knows where to look.(How could putting leaves on your head while the foe is looking stop him form finding you)

The appearing to have +20 armor to mobs, affects aggro calculation, if there are non stalkers in the mobs aggro range and it has not yet stopped moving in order to attack someone(locked aggro on a target) you get about as much aggro as paragons, opposed to the larger amount other 70 armor classes like assassins get, it's only a small reduction.

The can't aggro unless in earshot only works when that foe has not yet been attacked by you or members of your team.

Same for PvP, camouflage IS NOT INVISIBILITY it will require the player to be distracted or careless to miss your outline walking around the arena.

Quote:

put some sort of handicap on the camouflage abilities.

I did, it is dependent on the skill, but most of camouflage skills require you to not move. So far, except Chameleons Concentration, because it requires you to stay in side the area of your ambush.

It's logical I disallowed movement while camouflaged, because a moving bush kind of makes it obvious there's a Stalker camouflaged.

Quote:

(and her I have to agree with PT... Arbelast is a more fitting term) should only be able to have insanely long range while the Stalker is in a stance.

Unless I screwed up big time, it is supposed to.
Bombardments when used while it is on your back, fire straight up, falling down on foes in melee range.

P.S.
Isn't a ballista pretty much the same thing as an arbelast?
They are both large crossbows, too big to be fired by 1 person, mainly employed as defensive or siege artillery.

P.P.S
Should I reduce the armor to 60? making them as likely to be targeted as casters unless camouflaged. It accounts for the defence you can get from runes, better in their squishyness scale.
It would be a big nerf to their melee capabilities though.

[EDIT]
I have nerfed the bolt damage, which reduced all damage of the class in 1 go.
I've reduced the damage increase from the reaver's insignias, ambushes and most of the attacks.
And I've reduced the durations on almost all skills that cause conditions.
I've changed the multi target bombardements to not deal good single target damage + the multi target damage, but only deal normal attack damage and less than normal attack to the additional targets.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Nov 14, 2007, 09:54 AM // 09:54

I Remember a Ballista isa Large Crossbow, That is set up then Fire!, lik a Cannon.
And Arbalest is a Large Crossbow big a sa Person.
How bout an attribute which specialize on Effect Manipulation, A total opposite of Wards.
Ward more based on Offense like mny Strategist Oil Field.

System_Crush · Nov 14, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

I Remember a Ballista isa Large Crossbow, That is set up then Fire!, lik a Cannon.
And Arbalest is a Large Crossbow big a sa Person.

While there are larger versions of ballistae, that you can't carry around once placed down on a castle wall.
The roman version(around Prophesies tech period) is also about the size of a person, and was carried around as the front line advanced, it came with a pole that had to be hammered in the ground for it to stand on.

Though, those balistae look flimsy, bulky and rough, because of that they are ugly.
It would probably be a good idea to have the sleeker, more modern arbalests as a better looking skin variation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

How bout an attribute which specialize on Effect Manipulation, A total opposite of Wards.
Ward more based on Offense like mny Strategist Oil Field.

I kind of already have wards in the form of ambushes, and I intentionally gave the class no damage buffs for allies because it would be overpowered easely.
And I'd repeat myself in that they already have enough ways to increase damage.

Phoenix Tears · Nov 14, 2007, 10:46 AM // 10:46

better, but the name don't fits still XD

Name that CC better "Mechanist"
With the Concept around a Mechanist, which uses Arbalests as moveable Mini-Siege Weapons, that Profession can become alot more interesting an unique...

I think on the Part with these living Grenades ect.
The mechanist coulkd also "summon" little mechanic Defense Towers, stational
Attack/Defense/Heal Support, somethign similar to Ritualist Ghosts.
Maybe renome some Attributes with the Name, so that they also fit to the Profession's Name and finish

Because all that Concept here don't fits absolutely to the Scheme of a Stalker. Stalkers are Criminals, somethign roguegish. And a blind crippled fool can see, that your CC has nothing about a Rogue Style, its 100% Artillery ..but somethwere the Rogue got lost XD

An Arbalest is a crossbow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbalest